How To Advocate For Yourself And Your Kids During a Divorce With Attorney Brenda DeRouen

 

Our relationships with our loved ones aren’t just personal relationships; they’re also legal relationships. Our guest for today understands this very well. Family law attorney Brenda DeRouen is an advocate, entrepreneur, trailblazer and all-around badass. She was named 2021’s Rising Star by Super Lawyers, Top 40 under 40 by the National Association of Black Attorneys, and was awarded AVVO’s Client’s Choice award in 2019 and 2020 for family law. She is currently on the Board of Directors for the Houston Association of Women Attorneys. She won’t ever tell you this, but I will! In this chat, Brenda gives us all some insightful, useful, and tangible knowledge to carry with us into the future regarding our legal relationships with both our partners, our family, and our children. We talk about divorce counsel, custody and kids, mental health, accolades, advocacy, and the driving force behind the scorched earth this beauty leaves in her wake. Get ready to jump down the rabbit hole on today’s episode with one of Texas’ most prominent and successful female attorneys.

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How To Advocate For Yourself And Your Kids During a Divorce With Attorney Brenda DeRouen

I’ve got a very special guest. She is a friend but also someone that I think is fantastic, and you’re going to love her too. Her name is Brenda DeRouen. She is an attorney here in Houston, and she practices Family Law. She has her own practice and was named 1 of the Top 40 Under 40 by The National Trial Lawyers Association and the 2021 Super Lawyer Rising Star.

We talk about a lot of things in this episode. We’re going to talk about her roots, why she got into Family Law, Co-Parenting 101, and things to think about before you tie the knot with someone, tie your life to theirs. You can’t be too careful because it’s your life. You’ve got to look out for yourself first. You’ve got to put that oxygen mask on first before you can help anyone else.

Normally, I talk about relationships in an emotional capacity, and this is going to be different because we’re going to be talking about it in a very straightforward and business-like way so it won’t be so woo-woo. It’s normal and a little bit more straight to the point. Also, we’ll talk about how to be an ally. How to be an ally to someone who is going through a divorce, has gone through a divorce, is co-parenting or going through any Family Law issues. It’s super important. This also includes things like adoption. I know those items are close to many of your hearts. Without further ado, let’s get into it and welcome her to the show.

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We are here with my friend, Brenda DeRouen. Welcome, Brenda, to the show. How are you?

I’m good. Thanks so much for having me, Steph.

We love having you here on the Luxury Dropout. It is okay to have luxury goods and do luxury things, but the nitty-gritty of it is that you and I both know that this life is enriching us with experiences, especially as of late. Wouldn’t you agree?

I definitely agree. We had to figure out luxury and COVID and what does luxury truly means when you have to be combined into four walls.

That is so true. I’ve already introduced you so everyone knows that you are a Family Law attorney and you have your own practice, which is absolutely amazing. You’re under 35 and you have your own company. You have people that work for you that look up to you. You help people every single day. When you sit down at night with yourself and you’re alone, how do you feel? What feelings do you feel inside your heart?

There are a lot of feelings that I feel when I lay down in my bed at night thinking about all of my accomplishments. Some of the words that come to mind are great gratitude, gratefulness. I come from a very small town, humble beginnings. To look at my life and all I’ve been able to accomplish, I’m sometimes shocked and surprised, but I’m also grateful. It’s been an interesting and amazing journey. I have all the fields when I think about where I am now in life.

Family Law is probably one of the hardest things you can do as an attorney or hardest laws you can practice. What made you decide on Family Law?

You’re absolutely right. Family Law is full of drama. It’s baby mama and baby daddy drama. If you call my office, you are not calling because you want $1 million. You call me because somebody is trying to rip your heart out of you. I chose Family Law because I thought I wanted to be a corporate attorney. I track that, I did some internships and I didn’t like it. I’d have interaction with people. I thought I wanted to be a criminal defense attorney, which I’m glad I did it. I couldn’t work for that. That’s another practice area you definitely have to have the heart to do. There are a lot of people who need help and minorities in that field but I did it for a little bit and I did not like it.

There was a situation where I went through a custody situation with my son while I was studying for the bar exam. We don’t go into depth about Family Law litigation or things like that. They teach you the bare minimum. As you can imagine, I was a law student, poor, broke, and I didn’t have the money to spend thousands of dollars on an attorney, so I opened up this family handbook and I started reading and trying to represent myself. I fell in love with the law of Family Law because you get the opportunity to help guide people in the most turbulent portions of their lives and help them see the light at the end of the tunnel. I love kids, talking with people, and helping people. It’s rewarding for me. That’s why I chose Family Law.

It was truly personal to you like you were in it.

 

I’m still in it every day.

You’re still co-parenting, obviously. How did that go for you? When you learned all the things you did, you were in law school. Did you, in fact, represent yourself? What happened with that?

A lot of times, cases handled themselves outside of court. I didn’t have to litigate my case. I had to prepare for litigation if, in fact, it went that route but my case was handled outside of court. I didn’t get into the nitty-gritty that I do now.

Outside of court, does that mean mediation?

Yes. We’re at practice in Texas but specifically in Harris county. In order for you to even go for a judge unless there are extreme circumstances or there’s an emergency, the court requires you to go to mediation before you come into court so it was handed to the mediation.

Do you still have to have an attorney present for mediation?

It’s advisable to have an attorney present because you don’t know your rights. You don’t know what you can have, what you can’t have, what you can ask for or what you can’t ask for. As parents, we know what’s in the best interest of our children. Sometimes those things cannot necessarily be put into a court order unless the other party is agreeable to that because we have standards in our Texas Family Codebook that judges have to go by. There are a lot of things that you need to know in order to get into mediation and to negotiate a favorable result for yourself.

You say we as parents know what’s best. I feel that sometimes they don’t care what’s best. They want to win for themselves. I’ve experienced that with my recent ex. That was in mediation with his ex-baby mama or whatever drama, all that was. She was asking for stuff like what she gets versus what he gets and all that stuff. She had asked for a tummy tuck, breast augmentation and a BBL in mediation.

Was she represented by counsel and they asked for it?

Yes, and his attorney was like, “I’ve been practicing for a long time. I’ve never heard anyone ask for plastic surgery ever.”

At the end of the day, we’re extensions of our clients. We advocate for our clients. If a client is telling me, “Attorney DeRouen, I want you to go in there. I want you to ask for a BBL, new tits and a new face.” I’m going to advise them like, “There’s no way in hell you’re going to get these things because you look horrible, but because you’re asking me this and I am an extension of you, I have to go in and advocate for my client.” There are those cases when there are no kids involved and it’s strictly financial property cases but in the cases where there are children, we have a thing here in Texas where it says, “You have to do what’s in the best interest of the child. The best interest of the child is the law.” That’s how we determine custody, child support and visitation.

It’s important for us to talk to our clients because sometimes they do go and think that this is something that they’re winning. No one is winning when a child is in the middle of litigation. There are no wins and losses. That’s a conversation that I have with my clients. I always tell them, “When you go to mediation, you should not feel like you’re winning or losing. You should feel like you’ve done what’s right for your child.” In court as well, you should never feel like you’ve won. There are those cases where it’s like, “We won because that truly was in the best interest of the child.” Maybe the child was in a toxic living environment or an abusive situation and somebody wants custody. That is a win because the child is in a better situation but you’re right. There are some emotions.

Family law is hard, but it’s easy to fall in love with it because you get to help people in the most turbulent times in their lives. Click To Tweet

It’s a fine line. There must be some boundaries that you have to set with your clients. Say I came to you. My relationship with you as my attorney would be a little bit different than some random person that came off the street that you don’t know, but it’s paying you to retain your services, but there’s got to be that boundary like when do you get involved and say, “You need to go to see someone about what’s happening up here.” When is that fit for you?

That conversation is day one. In fact, I collaborated with different counselors and therapists in my practice because this is highly emotional. When you are dealing with divorce or child custody, this is nothing where you’re excited and you’re in a great headspace. It feels like your world is falling apart. When you came to me for a consultation and you decided to sign as a client, I put pamphlets in your new client folder and I’ll have a conversation with my clients about mental health because if you’ve not watched the news, these cases can turn nasty.

People have committed suicide because they’ve lost custody. People have killed their families because of whatever was not going in their favor. Therefore, it is important that anytime you’re going through any situation, it doesn’t have to be a divorce or even be a bad thing that you’re going through, we always have to check-in and make sure that we’re balancing ourselves the best way that we can.

Are there telltale signs? Have you gotten quicker at picking up on those signs?

When someone is coming into my office and not thinking logically like they’re not trying to make decisions in the best interest of the child or they’re trying to make the other parties miserable in some way, that’s a telltale sign that they haven’t dealt with their own shit. Because they haven’t dealt with their own shit, they’re trying to make someone else suffer. That’s a telltale sign. Maybe they have lost all hope or they felt like, “I can’t win.” She or he has all this evidence and they have multiple attorneys or whatever, so they’ve lost all hope. That can also be a telltale sign that someone needs to get some mental health services.

That’s good to know. I always wonder that it must be tough on you. Moving to the other side of things being tough on you, have there been situations where no matter how many years go by, a situation has stuck in your head and remained in your heart and your gut may be involving a child or something like that. Do you have situations like that?

I do. There was a case. It was my first custody case ever. It was supposed to be super easy. Dad wanted to get visitation and mom denied him visiting. This is an enforcement action. All we need is the order and we go to court. This turned out into a whole custody case. I don’t know if you know anything about Munchausen By Proxy. This was the textbook Munchausen By Proxy.

Mom was doping this kid up making this kid believe that he or she couldn’t stay. It had all of these disabilities constantly in and out of hospitals and doctor’s offices. I’d seen it on TV. I’ve never seen this in real life and here I am, the attorney taking on this huge case. I thought it was going to be enforcement action. It turned out to be a custody case. The judge believed in the first hearings that we had and she drifted dad’s visitation. He wanted to give up on this case.

I started working for free because I started peeling back layers of this case. It got crazy but we ended up winning custody for dad. He had this beautiful child and that case stuck with me. It’s a reminder that you have to fight, even when your clients feel like they don’t want to fight anymore because they feel like they’re losing. Custody cases and divorce cases take time and you have to be a fighter. You have to have someone who is willing to go to the end with you with these cases because it is highly emotional. You would have your highs and lows.

You need an attorney to just tell you, “You’ve got to continue fighting. I see something in this case that you probably don’t see. At the end of the day, you can tell me when you want to end this case but if you allow me, I will continue to fight for you.” That case has stuck with me. It’s a daily reminder to always fight for my clients. It’s a reminder that sometimes you don’t win in the beginning. You don’t get good results in court but if you stay the course, everything will work out.

For those who don’t know what Munchausen By Proxy is, go watch The Act on Hulu about Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and you’ll find out what that is.

It is the same.

That is so wild.

 

The better case. I was like, “What the fuck did I get myself into?”

Was it medical stuff that they discovered?

I dated a physician, so I’m going through these cases and trying to learn terminology and things. I’m asking him these questions, he’s teaching me and I’m learning. I’m putting my lawyer hat on and now, I’m this fake medical doctor. I’m going through these medical records and things are not adding up. I end up getting the court to order that the child goes to a different doctor that they’ve never gone to. That doctor has seen the same thing that I have seen and took this kid off with all these medications. It was bizarre.

I figured it out because my honey was helping me out. The case attorney was amazing too. For those who don’t know, oftentimes, kids don’t have voices in cases, which is so crazy to me. They should have a say so in a lot of things because they have feelings and things of that nature. We also had an amazing amicus attorney who was able to come in on the case, represent the child’s best interests and was able to see some of the same things that me and dad were able to see.

There was a separate attorney to represent the child. I’ve never heard of that. What’s it called?

Amicus.

That’s new. Write that down. That’s important.

That’s something that you can request if you have a child under the age of twelve. That’s not a hardcore law. It doesn’t say under the age of twelve, but it’s likely that if the child is under the age of twelve, you can ask the court to appoint an amicus to represent your child to have another eye. Remember, you have your attorney and they’re fighting like shit for you. They have their attorney and they’re fighting like shit for you but who is truly fighting for the child?

It makes complete sense but I never thought about it. I feel like law and order failed me because that’s how I know all of my stuff. It’s like Chicago Med. It’s what I watch and how I know all of my medical stuff.

My guy loves all the lawyers’ shows. He watched Court TV and 30 Days. I’m watching Chicago Med and all the medical shows, and I’m like, “Can we watch something else?”

I don’t know if that’s weird or not. I feel like you’re in it all day. The last thing you want to do is to be in it again unless it’s for research purposes, and you need to give a critique or something like that then maybe but otherwise. Let’s talk about some prestigious titles you’ve been given. Let’s talk about Top 40 Under 40 by The National Trial Lawyers Association, which is insane and 2021 Super Lawyer Rising Star. I’m so proud of you. I can’t even talk. I know that you are appreciative and excited but you need to give yourself some pats on the back because you worked hard for this. It’s not like you didn’t go to law school, mosey on to a law firm, sit in a chair and read a couple of briefs. You’ve done the work. Can you talk about the amount of work that you’ve put in to get here?

Thank you, Steph. I appreciate that. I’m always honored when people acknowledge some of the accolades because I don’t celebrate them enough and I should. The work that I’ve done, obviously the educational portion of it all. I went to law school for three years. It’s my first Bachelor’s degree, then the LSAT, which is a ridiculous test in and of itself then law school and doing your internships and trying to figure out what area of law you want to work in. Me starting my own law firm has been the greatest accomplishment that I’ve been able to accomplish in life. It’s creating a business and something that I get to dictate the day’s end and the operations of. It’s a lot of work. I’m still young and having people that you boss around, I don’t like to manage people. It’s hard because I’m still having fun. I don’t want to come across as stern, aggressive and boring. Learning that balance of what a boss looks like and not becoming too much of a friend to my employees. That has been hard.

Divorce and custody cases take time. You have to be a fighter. And you have to have someone who is willing to fight for you to the end, even when you feel like you don't want to fight anymore. Click To Tweet

Building the foundation, I do all of my own marketing so branding myself, branding my firm, making sure that I’m networking, going out and on top of it all, staying on top of the laws. Our laws change every time our legislation meets. I have to stay on top of that. We have continuing legal education. We have a ton of hours that we have to do every year. Making sure I’m standing on top of the law, learning the law and learning the business of law because no one teaches us that in law school. They don’t teach how to run a business, how to get clients, how to bill hours, how to make plain customer service and all of those great things. That has been the hardest.

It’s to be an entrepreneur as well as an attorney, which is huge. It’s two huge jobs that are super hard.

You’re right. Being a lawyer and being an entrepreneur are two hard jobs at the same time.

You’re a very smart woman. I knew that the second I met you. In fact, I didn’t even know you were an attorney when we met. We met at the gym, FYI. I haven’t worked out because of my accident, but I was intimidated by you. I don’t want to say intimidated in a negative way but your presence is strong. I was like, “That woman is a super fucking strong woman and I want to be her friend. I don’t know if she’ll let me.”

Your presence was intimidating. I was like, “Look at her.” First of all, let’s talk about it. I came into the gym and you were like super fit doing all these crazy fucking workouts. I had started working out again and I was huffing and puffing. You’re like, “You got it.” You were so strong. What are you talking about? You came off as the sweetest, kindest person. When you spoke to me, I wanted to say something before but I didn’t want to say something to her.

You never know if you are bothering someone but I felt very good vibes from you, although powerful. I said to myself, “I have to know this woman. I got to be in her energy.” When we have hung out, you bring such great energy. I don’t know how you do it because you give so much energy of yourself to not only to your clients, business associates, employees, boyfriend, family and friends but also, you are an activist as well. You were an integral part of the Houston BLM Movement. I would love for you to talk a little bit about that if you don’t mind.

Thank you. In 2020, we had the George Floyd situation. I felt moved at that moment. I could not sit at home and not do something. It hit differently. Every day, there is a situation where we hear about a minority and specifically African-American men or women being shot down by the police for unwarranted reasons or for reasons maybe it was warranted but it was over and beyond what was necessary for that particular situation.

The first thing that I did was I posted on my social media. There were a lot of protesters who were getting arrested. I said, “Enough is enough. If you’ve been arrested for being a protester, I want to represent you for free.” This situation was national. It was everywhere. When I posted that, people reached out to me and there were people calling me to represent them in Chicago, California or Louisiana. All these places. I’m only licensed in the State of Texas so I couldn’t help these people but I said, “I have a platform and I have resources. I know how to organize. What I’m going to do is start a base of attorneys who are willing to do the same thing that I’m doing, which represents protesters pro bono. I’m going to start this database and I’m going to host it on my website.”

I’m a Family Law Attorney. I don’t do a lot of criminal defense work but I have done it before. I hosted this database on my website and posted it on social media. I want to say we had over 500 attorneys on our list from around the United States. If you were arrested, you had a free attorney. Now, there were cases where if you were breaking glass or doing something crazy like you’re damaging property, I couldn’t represent you. That was my baseline but if you were only in the street or doing something, I’d represent you.

We got to a situation where we were out protesting one night. I was out in the streets and then Houston police got a group of people and centered them into this fenced-in area. They’re protesting in the street and they were hurting them into this pastor. I think it was over 900 people. If you think about that like, “You told me to get out of the street, but now you’re hurting me into this space where I can’t go anywhere.”

I thought that was not okay. It’s unfair. What we did was me, Eddrea McKnight and a lot of other attorneys got together and we said, “Enough was enough.” We wrote letters to the District Attorney’s Office. We asked a group of attorneys to speak to our DA. We were able to get all of those cases dismissed based on our presence being there, based on our legal expertise knowing what the law is and gathering witnesses to tell these protestors stories about what happened. That was one of my activist moments. It was helping protesters during the George Floyd situation and making sure that the DA dismissed those cases because it was unwarranted.

That was not the first nor the last time you have done things pro bono. I remember, on your birthday month, you made an announcement that you would be representing a client pro bono in celebration of your birthday. I admire that. I know that it is a difficult financial burden sometimes to take on all by yourself. I want to say thank you on behalf of our Houston community. I think that is truly so selfless.

I love doing it. Attorney fees are not cheap. As I say, I remember that time I had to study Family Law on my own because I could not afford an attorney. I don’t do these things for recognition at all because I love helping people. It fills me up. It makes my energy increase. For whatever reason, I truly love helping people and I love helping people who can’t help themselves.

 

You have published a few written blogs on topics. Maybe our audience hasn’t read them. You can give us a few tips on a few of the subjects that you’ve spoken about. The first one is I want to know how I can be an ally hypothetically if I have a girlfriend who’s going through a divorce and a nasty custody battle? I have a boyfriend who was going through a divorce, a custody battle or a parent who’s going through a divorce with my other parent. How are you an ally?

Allyship is so important. We talked about the mental health aspect of these cases. When people are going through custody battles or a divorce, they need somebody to be supportive of them. You can be an ally simply by acknowledging that someone is going through a situation that maybe you’ve not experienced before but you could probably relate to if you think about the worst heartbreak that you’ve ever had or if you’ve ever lost anything like an animal, a friend or anything. It feels like when people are going through divorce or custody cases, they’re going a debt. It is a true grieving process for them. In order to be an ally, you only need to be available and allow individuals to vent to you without judgment.

No one wants to be judged because they have a judge. They have a judge that they eventually have to go to and they don’t need it to be other people around them. Also, helping them to get out of the funk. Showing them that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We get so into whatever moment we’re in that we don’t think that, “This is only a fraction of my life. This is not my total life.” Getting them out of the house if they’re depressed, recognizing if they need mental health services and being there for them.

What do you do if your friend is like, “Let’s go slash his tires.” How do you take them off the freaking ledge? It’s like the rider drive vision side. It was like, “Let’s go do it,” but I’m like, “We can’t do that.”

To be honest, I was that friend before I became an attorney. If you want to slash his tires, I’m like, “Yes. Let’s put on our black hoodies and our face mask. Fuck him.” Now that I’m an attorney and I know that there are serious consequences behind it, I would say, “If someone wants to slash someone’s tires, there is an emotion that they’re trying to get out. They are frustrated and are putting all of this energy into this guy, this girl, this property or whatever because they’ve not found a way to analyze those feelings or express those feelings.”

I would recommend that if you have a friend that’s wanting to do that, find something else for them to do. Maybe get a fat head off his face, get some paint gun and shoot his face or her face or go to one of those smashed rooms where you can smash and throw glasses so they can get that frustration. Redirect that energy to something that is not going to be a criminal and will allow them to vent and express themselves.

If you can’t find a place that’s open or if it’s late at night, I’ll be like, “Let’s go get some ice cream. Don’t worry about it. It’s going to be okay.”

Instead of that, let’s go get ice cream.

You’re right. Back in the day, I was so mad at now my ex-husband but at that time, he was my fiance and he wouldn’t let me in our house that we shared with our friend, Eric, in Vegas. I was in my car and he wouldn’t let me in the door and pick up the phone. It was his house. He owned it. I was like, “I’m going to casually tap the garage,” but no. It wasn’t a tap. I fucked up the garage door badly. “Let me in the fucking house.” That story will not die because, of course, his whole fraternity heard about it. Even many years later they’re like, “Remember when Stephanie ran into Ryan’s garage?” I don’t talk to him anymore.

They always bring it up. I won’t repeat his name because I don’t know if he wants me to tell this story about him. We’ll call him Harry. “Do you remember when Harry was holding you back from you trying to get to Ryan and you accidentally gave him a black eye?” I’m like, “I don’t remember that. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m sorry. I think I’m getting old and my memory is going.” Co-Parenting 101. You’ve written about this. Give us a couple of tips on Co-Parenting 101 that maybe seem obvious to you but aren’t so obvious to most.

On my social media, I collaborate with Anne Lewis, who is a Parenting Coach and Psychologist. It’s called Co-Parenting in 2021. One thing that I’ve learned with co-parenting is you have to be able to one, always put the child first. The best interest of the child. Number two is to be flexible. Things are going to always go your way or his way. You got to learn how to be flexible. Communicate like hell.

I am a partner with this app called TalkingParents. It is so helpful for parents to find resources that can help facilitate an effective co-parenting relationship. That app is one but there are many others out there and where you can share calendars. It’s hard to keep up with your kids when you have kids doing football, tutoring, going to doctor’s appointments and finding resources where you can communicate and share information about your child in one centralized location.

You are going to do just fine. Keep doing what you're doing and just know that you are beautiful. You're going to meet amazing people and everything is just going to work out. Click To Tweet

Real quick about the co-parenting app. Can you communicate through that app? For example, I know that there are some court-mandated things where you have to communicate solely through a portal, an app or something.

TalkingParents is a texting app but it’s also an app where you could mince certain things like maybe out-of-pocket medical expenses as well as share calendars. You’re right. TalkingParents is one of those apps that can be court-ordered. It’s only court-ordered in those situations where it is high conflict or there has been some situation of abuse. Absent of that, parents can mutually agree to sign on to a co-parenting app to make parenting efficient for them. I recommend it because it is helpful. It is automatically admissible in court as evidence.

It keeps everything in one place and not the Facebook Messenger, Instagram messenger or texts.

Think about it. If he or she did something 2 or 3 months ago, I know on my phone I delete stuff after a month, two days or something like that. If you have this co-parenting app, nothing is deleted. When your attorney needs evidence or needs to know when you notify the other parent of a certain thing, you can literally go into the app and it stays it forever. You might lose your phone or forget your iCloud information and it takes too much time to try to find things like emails and text messages so I recommend it.

Anything else that you would recommend for co-parenting?

There are other things if you want to read up on that. Check out my page, @BrendasMyLawyer on Instagram.

What are the things to consider before saying, “I do?”

That is the million-dollar question. That is also another thing that can be found on my Instagram. That was a great conversation. I met with so many different professionals to come together to give advice on things to consider before you say I do. As a family attorney, the number one thing I’m going to say is to consider a pre-nuptial agreement.

I talked about this not too long ago, but pre-nuptial agreements used to be a thing for men to get. They were the breadwinners back in the days and had all these assets that they wanted to protect. If you look at the statistics and the numbers, women are starting to make a lot more money than men. Although we love to get married and we want to have this dream wedding, we also have assets and things that we need to protect.

Not only those things that we have before we get married but also the things that we acquire after we get married. Those are conversations and things that you want to think about before you say I do. Do you want this long, drawn-out divorce or do you want something in place to say, “If this thing does not work out, this is what’s going to happen? I’m going to pay half the bills or you’re going to pay me spousal support and I’m going to go find another place to live. You’re going to have the house and I’m going to have this.” How are we going to divide our assets? Are we going to go off a Texas Law? I call it Planning for the inevitable. A lot of people get into these marriages and don’t realize that 50% of these marriages don’t last. It’s almost a wheel to me. You need to plan for the inevitable. We pray that you make it but it is almost certain that you probably won’t.

Your partner proposes and you talk to him/her about getting a pre-nuptial agreement. You say it in the calmest way and the clearest way possible and they freak the fuck out. Are we talking red flag? Are we talking deal breaker here?

Neither. I would say it’s all about communication. A pre-nuptial agreement isn’t always a bad thing. You can negotiate what you want in your pre-nuptial agreement. Now sometimes you won’t agree on all of those things but you can leave that out. If it’s such a big deal, neither one of you guys want to commit to that, you don’t have to agree on that thing in that pre-nuptial agreement but it is a contract. It is something that I wouldn’t say is a red flag but if it is a huge deal then that is going to be a red flag because now you need to think about this person who is not considerate of something that is so important to me. That’s a big thing. If it’s something huge like, “If we get married then I want 50% of everything,” and that’s a big deal to you. He’s like, “Fuck that. I want 90%.” That’s a red flag.

When I first got married, I was 22 so I didn’t have any assets and neither did he but now, if I were to get married, I absolutely would want that. I can’t help but think when that day comes. If he tries to gaslight me into, “I don’t love you because I’m asking for a prenup.” I will dump his ass in a second.

 

My guy and I have already had a conversation about a pre-nuptial agreement and it’s a done deal. That was an easy conversation for us.

You guys both have solid careers too. That’s another thing. If he was floating around having an odd job here or there, it would be beneficial to you and him too but now it’s very mutually beneficial to both of you. I think that’s excellent. I can’t believe you’re having those discussions and I’m excited about it. On the show, I normally talk about the romantic side of love and signs. You should look for the red flags. It’s more in a romantic sense and emotional sense but this is straightforward and a physical red flag that you would look for. Anything else that you would look for as like a red flag before you marry someone?

A lot of people don’t think about it but I think it’s important to think about religion, money and debt. How much debt do you have? How much debt does he have? Money is up there as one of the top reasons why people get divorced. Financial stability or the lack thereof. Finances are anything she would go digging. How do people spend their money? What do they spend their money on? Are they open to having a conversation about their finances? It’s because when you come together, you need to be able to have the money talk.

Another thing is how do they deal with conflict. If you’re in a relationship with someone and they’re not dealing with conflict well when you guys have arguments, it’s not going to get better. We have this huge ring and this huge wedding, it’s not going to change the person that they are to their core and it’s not going to change who you are to your core. Be looking at how you resolve conflict. Now, if you’re in a new relationship, that’s not a big deal. You learn to combat with each other and you learn to argue with each other. If both parties are able to come together to figure out how do we argue? It’s beneficial for you and beneficial for him or her or however that works then that’s not a red flag. That’s you growing in a relationship but if you get to the point where someone’s proposing and you know that you guys have not figured out how to argue with each other, that is a red flag.

I have one more question for you. It’s something I ask everybody that’s on the show. If you were walking down the street and you saw twenty-year-old Brenda walking towards you, you gave her a big hug and you pulled away and you looked at her. What is one thing that you would tell twenty-year-old Brenda?

I would slap her on the ass and say, “You come doing it a little bit. You are going to be fine. All this stress, late nights, broke moments where you don’t have gas for your car. You can’t go anywhere because you don’t have money. You are going to do fine. Keep doing what you’re doing and know that you are beautiful. You’re going to meet some amazing people and everything is going to work out just fine.”

I love that. That’s beautiful. Thank you for being on the show. I hope you enjoyed your time with us. I learned so much from you.

It was so fun. Thank you for having me. I wish you nothing but the best with this show. You have phenomenal people come on and I’m excited for all that you have to bring. Thank you for creating this platform.

I want to do like you. I want to help other people especially women who have no resources to pay for the advice that you gave me. Now, they will be able to come to this show and read to some solid advice from an attorney who knows her shit. I can’t thank you enough. Thank you for your time. I’ll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. I love you.

I love you too. Thank you.

—

Dropouts, I hope that you enjoyed that. That was so informative. I learned something brand new. I hope you did too. I hope this is a great resource for you. Brenda is an absolutely fantastic attorney with a beautiful heart and she is one of the smartest people I know. I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the show. Until next time, I’m sending you love. I will see you soon.

Important Links:

• Brenda DeRouen
• The National Trial Lawyers Association
• Super Lawyer Rising Star
• Houston BLM Movement
• Eddrea McKnight
• TalkingParents – Co-parenting App
• @BrendasMyLawyer – Instagram
• https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/brenda-derouen-a755a068/
• https://www.Facebook.com/pg/derouenlaw/posts/

About Brenda DeRouen

Named  Top 40 under 40 by the National Trial Lawyers Association and 2021 Super Lawyer – Rising Star, Attorney Brenda DeRouen is passionate about providing families with quality legal representation. She knows how overwhelming the legal process can be and works diligently to help our clients understand their rights and the issues affecting their case. Attorney DeRouen is known for her aggressive advocacy and works hard to get things done. 

Outside of managing DLF, our Attorney is a trailblazer in the community. She has a passion for criminal justice reform and the advancement of women. She is on the Board of Directors for the Houston Association of Women Attorneys, is the Founder & CEO of Women of Law, and a proud member of Jack and Jill of America, Inc. Prior to building her practice Attorney DeRouen worked as a Policy Analyst for the Senate Committee on Criminal Justice.

 In her spare time, Brenda enjoys traveling and trying new things.