Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Red Flags and When to Walk Away With Leon Walker, Part 2

We continue on Leon Walker‘s conversation with Stephanie Joplin about the red flags surrounding Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This time, the two delve into real-life experiences of manipulative partners, discussing how most of them are agents of gaslighting, selfishness, and control. Hear how narcissistic people confuse you with mere words, why they easily fall to cheating, and how they take advantage of your opposing traits. Stephanie also opens up about her past messy relationships, particularly when she experienced being love-bombed by a guy in the Marines and Army (who’s also a potential narcissist). Leon responds to this icky story by explaining how PTSD negatively impacts the way soldiers handle relationships, giving a peek at their unbelievably fragile feelings.

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Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Red Flags and When to Walk Away With Leon Walker, Part 2

Leon and Stephanie discuss the hot button topic of narcissism in romantic relationships. Stephanie reveals one of her biggest secrets.

I do want to put a disclaimer at the beginning of this show, letting you know that this is a trigger warning. You could possibly be triggered by something that I am saying, that Leon is saying. I don’t want to scare you away from it, but just in case you have experienced gaslighting, you’ve been with a narcissist, this could be triggering for you. Please, audience discretion is advised for this episode.

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People are afraid to hear those things and talk about that. That’s why when I do my videos, I’m like, “I know it’s going to be a trigger, but I’d rather trigger you in the video than you go out there and somebody put a trigger to your head.” You’ve got to tell that friend the truth. Try to give them the help. Paint a picture for them. That picture has to be ugly. Build them up with reassuring comments because a lot of times, they fall into this trap with these people because they have low self-esteem. They get isolated.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Don’t give people an ultimatum because they become hurt and angry, which puts them closer to the perpetrator.

It feels like, “They love me, I’m getting this attention.” They’re afraid to let go because it’s love bombing and sex bombing. It’s a mental game, it’s torture. They start to manipulate them. It goes over and over again, then you have a trauma bond. She doesn’t want to listen to you but she’ll listen to him. He’ll say, “I don’t see that girl, that girl is flirting with me anyways. She’s been looking at me too so you’re going to believe her over me?” She’ll go, “Maybe you’re right,” and she won’t go anywhere.

I will tell them the truth. Paint them an ugly picture of losing friends and losing family. You’ve got to make them see these things constantly over and over again, and then they’ll snap out of it. If not, they’ll keep going back to this person feeding them sins, lust and greed, making them feel happy, building their self-esteem, confidence up and feel secure.

Sometimes it’s difficult because if they don’t take your advice, which normally they won’t, eventually you give them an ultimatum. You’re like, “Either you stop talking to Leon or I’m not going to be your friend anymore,” and then they’re even more isolated.

They don’t feel close to that person too.

Would you recommend not giving them that ultimatum and ride it out with them? What would you say?

I wouldn’t give them an ultimatum because then they become hurt and angry. That will put some faults to the perpetrator. She would say, “Do you know what Stephanie told me? She can’t be my friend because I’m with you.” You’d go, “We don’t need her anyway.” She’ll go, “You’re right. I only see her once a week anyway, so we don’t need her.” He’ll start feeding more into her, “She doesn’t even call you at night time. She didn’t call you for your birthday.” She’ll start believing him more. I wouldn’t give them an ultimatum. I never do that. I try not to.

I have female friends and male friends that are going through that. A male friend of mine is going through it and I’m like, “I’ll be here for you.” This is what I do. When we’re together, me, my buddy and his mom are talking. I’ll talk to his mom about why I got out of my relationship about why I travel and do what I want to do in my freedom, but I’m talking about him but he doesn’t know it. I’ll do that. He’ll sit over there and go, “That’s a good idea.”

I would be talking to his mom and she’ll go, “Leon, that’s a good idea.” I’m talking to her but talking to him and getting to him indirectly. You have to stay around that person. Every now and then, go back and reach out to them but never give them an ultimatum because they’ll shut down. They will feel like, “Stephanie, my mom and dad are giving up on me. All I have is Jesse who’s beating my ass.” That will push them closer to that person. Don’t give an ultimatum. When you guys are out, talk around them about good things so they’ll go, “They’re listening.” I always talk to somebody else but I’m talking about them and they don’t know it.

I follow this woman, Michaela. Her tag is Mystic Michaela. She reads color auras. She has a podcast, and she talks about the fact that a narcissist’s love language is gaslighting. I thought that was an interesting concept. Let’s say I’m the receiver of the gaslighting. I’m like, “This guy went out and made up this whole lie to try to keep me. That means he loves me because he took the time to make up this web of lies and come up with something to excuse himself. That blows my mind a little bit.” What do you think about it?

That’s the vindictive part to mask or hide his insecurities because the thing about it is you’re going to find out. When you find out, I don’t give a crap anyway. I know that I’m screwed up. You happen to find out. You’re going to find out and approach me, we go find another person and keep doing it. That’s all we are going to do. I had an issue when I got caught in a lie and made up this grand scheme. I get busted and I walk away. I’m out.

You still try to make up this big lie. I feel that was your way of showing your love. Your love language to that person was to gaslight them.

All they’re doing is to impress you, knowing damn well that it’s not going to last.

They confuse you.

Here’s the trick with that. This is what narcissists do and this is what I did. Once she finds out, I’ll change the conversation and show her something that’s true that I did do. That’s being manipulative of us. It’s like, “I know I messed up but this is going to be even better than what I lied about.” They hear what you’re saying, “Leon, why did you lie?” I’m like, “Baby, I don’t know.” We do it again.

“I’m sorry, baby. You know I love you.”

That’s what happens. Now, you’ve got this grand scheme of what I’m lying about, but then you’ve got this, “This is amazing. You didn’t lie about this.” It’s a sickness. Most men don’t have to lie. Women all say, “You don’t have to lie. All you have to do is tell me the truth. Let me make my own decisions.” That’s not what we want to do. We don’t want you to make your decision, so I’m going to lie to you and I’m going to try to impress you. When you kiss me, I’m going to impress you with this thing over here, which is the truth. That is dangerous.

We laugh about it because we’re trying not to cry and say, “I’m trying not to cry.” I talked about this all the time and we talked about it before. Narcissism, gaslighting, these are all buzzwords. These are hot button words that people are saying and using in their everyday jargon. What is the difference between a narcissist and someone manipulative? What is the core difference between those two?

They’re the same, but a narcissist has plenty of other traits. Once they manipulate you, it goes to being seductive, then it goes to being covert, malignant, grandiose, and you’ve got all these other things. A manipulative person has narcissistic traits. A narcissistic person has all little tricks and traits. They master all of them.

Would you say that it’s a personality disorder as opposed to just a trait that they have?

Yes. It stems from childhood, what they didn’t get, they were left behind, they were lost, bullied, low self-esteem, no confidence, sent to an orphanage or foster care, not trusted, people didn’t believe in them, people gave up hope. It’s like, “I’m going to show these people. I’m going to prove to them that the whole time you have anger issues too.” I was the same way. I wasn’t a physically abusive person but I was verbally abusive. My way of hurting people and women is by using certain words. That felt good to me. I didn’t want to see somebody get their teeth knocked out or their nose broke.

How weird is it for me to say some things to a woman and drive her to want to commit suicide, and I’d be okay with that? I did that too, and a woman almost killed me and her in a car. I played all these games in her mind and I’m like, “I never slapped you.” She’s like, “Leon, you said this and I caught you with this girl. You lied. You dropped the girl off. You came over here and you tried to make love to me after you dropped her off.” I was sick, Stephanie. I had to tell myself that it’s okay to not be physically abusive, “You’re all right. You’re cool. You called her names and you put it down.” I made myself think that was okay. This is sick, if not more sick than being physically abusive because mentally, it was horrible.

Technically, you’re gaslighting yourself as a narcissist.

Pretty much. The thing is a lot of people don’t understand that because they fall into that trap. They don’t know that the narcissistic person is gaslighting themselves. I did that a lot. I did this to women. I said, “You shouldn’t mess with me because I’m no good.”

They then want you more. That would make me want you more. At that time, I’d be like, “Let me get him right away.”

“Let me try to prove him wrong. Let me fix him. Let me get him before anybody else gets him. I can help him. I can fix him.” A lot of times, they gaslight themselves. I did that and I got pretty good at it. That’s another dangerous thing to do. Later on, she’s like, “You didn’t.” I’m like, “I told you.”

“I told you that I wasn’t good to be with but you wanted to be with me.”

Some women think it’s funny. It’s like, “That is weird but for some reason, I’m attracted to that.” I’ve had women tell me that.

I get that. As someone who has been a victim of that, I 100% understand that. If I was in a vulnerable spot and you talk to me that way, I’d be like, “Let me send you a nude.” Why?

Another thing is narcissistic people are cocky. For instance, I would say, “I’m not crap but watch me get a girl. I’m a cheater. I’m a liar.” Who would expect a person to tell the truth like that about themselves and be telling the truth? That’s unbelievable.

You’re being ironic.

Ironic is a keyword. “How ironic is that? You’re telling me the truth about you but are you that person? No way.” I did that a lot.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: You got to make them see these things constantly over and over again, and then they’ll snap out of it. If not, they’ll keep going back to this person feeding their sins, lust, and greed.

I want to talk about love bombing. That’s important to talk about because it’s an epidemic now, especially during COVID because people are getting into what I would call long-distance relationships, sometimes even in the same city because they can’t see each other. Now, it’s getting a little bit better. Here in Houston, it’s starting to get worse.

It’s getting worse here too. We’ve got 100,000 cases in Illinois.

They have camps outside the hospitals because they’re full. There’s so much stuff going on. During COVID, people would have these long-distance type relationships, and I feel people wanted that closeness a lot so they would love bomb even. When you say love bomb to a man that doesn’t understand what narcissism, gaslighting or love bombing is, they think that is the old standby when you’re 18 years old or 17 years old, and you tell your 16-year-old girlfriend that you love them to sleep with them. That’s not the same thing. It’s not what I’m talking about. It might have nothing to do with sex at all. You want to feel that person’s love for you, but then you don’t want to commit to the relationship.

I don’t know if he has a Psychology degree, and I don’t even remember his name, but he’s one of those people who’s on Instagram giving advice about relationships. I got into an argument with him because someone asked a question, “I had a boyfriend and he told me that he loved me. Then he broke up with me two days later.” I was like, “That’s a love bomb.” He’s like, “You don’t have enough information to make that assumption.” I said, “Maybe not, but I do know that if somebody tells you that they love you and you’ve already been with them, no matter how long you’ve been with them if it’s been a week or a year, if that person tells you ‘I love you’ and walks away two days later, that to me is a love bomb.” It’s total manipulation.

He used the words that she wanted to hear. He did that to manipulate her. I agree with you.

All of his followers were coming for me. They were like, “You throw narcissism around. You use it too much.” I’m like, “I never said this guy was a narcissist. What I said was that is love-bombing to say “I love you” and then disappear.” That’s screwed up. To me, that is abusive.

Words are powerful and I knew that. I played a dangerous game of listening to a woman. Women like a man who listens. You all love a man who listens and makes eye contact. My thing was listening to see what I can learn about her, what she was missing, what she wasn’t getting, what she didn’t get from her dad, boyfriend, ex or whomever. I did the listening part so I could do what she wanted. I’m going to do the opposite of what she wasn’t getting. It’s a dangerous game to play. I did it and it’s a sickness. It’s all about being manipulative and being selfish.

I had this guy who was in the Marines and Army. He was doing contract work in Kabul. He was after me on Instagram for a solid year. We hadn’t met. He’s like, “Stephanie, you’re pretty.” I left him in the unread box. I was like, “I don’t care.” There was one night that I was particularly vulnerable. I had found out that a friend of mine had passed away or something like that. He reached out to me and his words were super kind and sweet. I ended up talking to him.

Over the course of four months, we were talking. Then after a month, he was saying, “I love you. I want to marry you. You’re the person that I was meant to be with. This is why I’ve found this Earth because of you.” It’s those beautiful words. Me, as a person who says their love language is words of affirmation, I’m gobbling it up.

He came back from his contract and we ended up meeting. He stayed with me for one night. Everything was fine but in my gut I was like, “Something’s off. Something’s going on.” I honestly don’t know if he was a narcissist. I’m going to talk to you about what I think it was, but you can correct me if I’m wrong. He wants to marry me, wants to go look at rings and all the crazy things.

He’s going pretty fast.

He was talking to my mother on Facebook about what they’re going to cook together. It’s that kind of thing. He’s talking to my sister a little bit. My sister is hesitant to talk to any guys that I date. She’s protective. He was even reaching out to her. He left the next day. I was at work and he didn’t tell me. He got on the road to go back to Dallas and left. After a couple of days, he ghosted.

I know he had PTSD, which I want to talk to you about because I know you understand. He has been through a lot in Kabul. He got blown up. His whole camp got blown up. He ended up getting a huge settlement out of it. He was physically sick. He was one of those people who wanted to be deployed constantly. He did not want to be home. I don’t want to make excuses for his behavior because I feel like this is me saying it’s okay that he did that to me, because it’s not. I see and I hear it a lot from people who date in the military. I know it’s not everyone and I don’t want to piss anyone off, but tell me what you think about that?

I served many years in the military. I deployed eleven times. I spent fifteen years on the sea. Half of my career was spent on the ship. We had to come back from deployment and decompress. The minimum I was going was six months. When we are away, we are detached. We had to shift our whole mindset to go from the loving boyfriend and husband to warfighter, to steaming it off the course of Iraq, to being up all night, twelve-hour shifts. Looking on the horizon, seeing bombs going off, worried about a ship coming in, shooting the missile, blowing the ship up and killing you.

We were like this for four months. We’ve deployed for six months, we spent four months in the Persian Gulf and we are not the same. When we come back, we don’t know what we’re coming back to. Some people come back to a house being empty. Some people come back to catch their spouse in bed with another man or woman. Some people come back to their grandmother or their father died, or one of their children drowned at the beach. We come back not knowing who we are, the kids have gotten older and the kids don’t remember us. The mom doesn’t trust us around the kid. We have to decompress. We even got anthrax shots. We took malaria pills and all types of stuff. We have a hard time reacclimating back into society.

When you’re out at sea for six months, when you’re in the Persian Gulf, Kabul and Afghanistan, nobody is telling you they love you. Now we have FaceTime and Zoom. Even now, you may not want to hear, “I love you. I can’t hear that now.” It’s like, “What do I do?” My girl, Toni, told me she loves me because we got mortars and bombs coming in. We got a ship over here. We got a small ship attack on the site. You get back to where it’s calmed down and you want to go to sleep, thinking about your girlfriend or boyfriend, husband, wife, your kids and whomever you’re with. It’s an emotional roller coaster that we can’t do anything about.

You get on that roller coaster when you deploy and you are on it for 6, 7, 8, 9 months or 1 year whether they’re in Afghanistan or they’re in Kabul, they’re over there for years. You’re like, “Let’s Facetime.” “I don’t want to talk. I don’t want to get mushed now because I’ve got to be on guard.” When you finally come back, you’re emotional. You want to love. You haven’t been loved. You want to hold somebody. You want to get married. You want to have a family because you’re getting older. You’re tired of the military. Some guys go, “Let me disappear because I’ve got to keep my job. I like Stephanie. She’s beautiful but I’m dealing with these emotions now.”

He was out. He wasn’t going to do contract work anymore. He’d spent over a decade in the military, so it’s not like he was new to it. He knew what it meant to come back from deployment, from overseas or back from seeing whatever he was seeing over there.

We don’t process it like that. I got deployed eleven times to the Middle East.

You’re not sitting there telling a woman you want to marry her when you get back.

We do that. You come back because you’re emotional. You haven’t been hugging a woman and you haven’t had sex. In most cases, when you’re in Afghanistan, you’re not around women.

What I’m saying is when you’re there, would you tell a woman, “When I get back, I want to marry you?”

I’ve done it. I wrote letters. We had to write letters. Think about it, you’re emotional and deprived. You haven’t held or kissed a woman. You are thirsty for that. It’s like when you get out of jail. They have pen pals. They get married in jail. It’s like your ex’s girl or whatever. It’s the same thing. Men get lonely too. That’s their way of saying, “I’m lonely.” They’re not going to say, “I’m lonely. I want to marry you. You’re beautiful.” When you see somebody and you deploy, it seems like everybody looks good. It’s like, “She’s beautiful. Maybe she doesn’t like me.” You then start showing me attention and it’s like, “She does like me.”

Maybe he didn’t have a relationship for two years or he screwed up all of his relationships. He wants to try with somebody else and see if he can still operate in a relationship. We tell women, “When we get back, we’re going to do this. We’re going to travel. We’re going to get married. I want to get engaged.” We talk about all these things. I did it too and then when you get back, it’s like, “I’m back.”

That makes me scared to talk to anyone who’s in the military now.

Don’t take me the wrong way. There are some good men in the military. Not all of them are like that. Most of them are pretty supportive and they provide and protect. We do have PTSD. For the most part, the men and women in the military are good. They are type-A personalities. Sometimes aggressive and some of them can be passive. Some are passive-aggressive. Some of them can be understanding, endearing, they’re listening and they communicate. When you move up in the military, you become a leader, so you have to work on your EMIQ, your emotional IQ, passion, compassion, empathy and courage. That transitions over to your relationship if you do it.

I never transitioned my EMIQ into any of my relationships. I was a provider. I love women. I want to protect and take care of her. A lot of people in the military that are senior leaders have a pretty high EMIQ. Some of them have a low IQ, some of them have a high IQ and a high EMIQ. That’s rare but it happens. There are some good military men and women that you can date.

What am I supposed to look out for if a guy approaches me and he’s in the military and wants to get to know me and talk to me? I am one of those people who doesn’t have a roster. I don’t have a bench. Once I’m talking to one guy, I want to focus on one person. Not that I’m saying, “We need to be boyfriend and girlfriend now.” That’s not what I meant. Personally, I don’t want to get to know five people at once. I want to get to know one person at once. If it doesn’t work out, then I go to the next person.

You know what marriage vows are whether you’ve been married or not. Most people do not talk about relationship vows. People never even heard of relation vows. What are relationship vows? It’s the same thing as marriage vows. You want to be the same way in a relationship as you are in your marriage. You want the same way, “Until death do us part. For sickness and health,” or wherever it goes. You want to talk about relationship vows. You want to talk about the components of a relationship. They say that there are ten. I learned these in therapy. You want to talk about his past. You want to tell him about your past.

I’ve dated and slept with a whole lot of women, sadly. Not one time in all my relationships has a woman asked me about my past. My dad was verbally abusive. My dad was an alcoholic. He’s a great man. He worked and he loved me to death. He loved my brothers and sisters. He loved my mom. My mother has an addictive personality. My dad’s personality was extreme. Nobody knew, “Leon, you have an addictive personality. You have an extreme personality.”

Not one woman asked me about my past. They never knew that my mother was a drug addict until I told them so. “Leon, what are you addicted to? What were you addicted to as a child? Why were you addicted to porn? Do you like older women? Do you like me? Do you like short hair? Do you like lipstick? What do you like?” We don’t talk about those things. The love language is important. You need to ask him about his love language. Ask him about his past life, his exes, why did they break up and how long?

These are interviews. You have to do it. We date, we go to dinner, we go to movies, we look at each other’s eyes, we hold hands, we flirt, I drop you off, get you the next day and we start over. Other things we don’t talk about are seasons and reasons. Stephanie, what season are you in? “I’ve been divorced for a while. I’m in my early 30s. I’m starting a podcast. My season now is great, my podcast and interviewing people. I want to travel here but I want to get a better microphone. My followers are up to 100,000. I want to get monetized on YouTube.” That’s your season.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Most people do not talk about relationship vows. Many never even heard of relation vows.

What can I do as Greg to bring better energy to your season? “Let’s go check for some microphones. Let’s go look for somebody who can edit your content. I found somebody.” We’re working together. You ask me, “Greg, what season are you in?” “I’m getting into fitness now. I want to lose 15 pounds. I want to compete. I want to run a marathon.” We’re understanding that I like what you do and you like what I do. Now, it’s not a problem. When I see you doing a podcast next Wednesday and I want to go to dinner, I’m like, “My girl told me that she’s doing a podcast next Wednesday. I’m going to go get her dinner while she’s on a podcast. When she’s done, we’ll go. Or as soon as she’s done, I’ll order her a fruit basket.”

The thing is it’s about understanding your partner, the season and why they’re in that season. Sometimes you’re coming out of the season because you lost a baby, you got divorced, your child support or alimony went up. That’s his season right there. The financial season is a little jacked up. Are you going to be able to work with him on that?

The thing is being open and honest upfront, “What does Stephanie like? Stephanie likes cantaloupe, kiwi, pink nail polish,” or whatever. You have to know your partner, the components of the relationship, what they like, what they dislike, their past, their mother and father’s past. If you have a son already, “When he comes over, would you allow me to discipline your son or daughter? Who’s going to do what chores in the house? Am I doing the garbage and the dishes? Are you doing the cooking and cleaning of the gutters? Who’s going to do the cars?” It’s the components of the relationship.

When we date, you date a person based on their looks and their status, car, house, job or whatever, but you don’t even know that person. You can tell a lot about a person about what they drive. They’ve got to have a BMW, Louis Vuitton bag, Birkin purses, a $10,000 diamond ring pear cut instead of something simple. Let’s go roller skating, let’s go to the park and feed the ducks. A lot of women don’t get those things because some men want to impress them with their money, their car and their house.

That’s why this show is called The Luxury Dropout because I used to concern myself with how many designer things I could accumulate, and it meant nothing.

That’s superficial. You can get a guy that graduated from UNLV, GPA, he’s a lawyer but he may not be anything. You’ve got another guy that went to let’s say Cleveland State or NYC. He’s got a decent car, a nice condo, great morals, character and integrity, and will make you feel beautiful. Whereas this guy is a graduate from UNLV, got drafted, is an MBA but he’s a jerk.

Most pro athletes are not great. Whenever I’m talking to someone that I care about, I always ask them, “How can I support you? How can I help you? What can I do to support you?” The bar is low now and men still can’t get over the bar. That’s what frustrates me because it’s the littlest thing. For example, I had this boyfriend who I broke up. He would leave me hanging until 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 on Saturday not knowing when or if we’re going to hang out. Me, being the person that I am, I was waiting, “When are you going to be off work?” He’s creating work to avoid real work, which is the relationship. He was leaving me in the wind.

How long were you dating?

It was for six months. Honestly, his mother was trying to get me to stay with him so she would make all kinds of excuses. It was a crap show. His father is a good guy but stern and throws money at everything. If there’s a problem, he would throw money at it to make it go away. He’s a generous guy. He has two other daughters with a different wife. The family is a little dysfunctional.

He didn’t know how to relate to you at all.

He didn’t know what gaslighting or a narcissist was. He got angry when I tried to show him the movie 50 Shades of Grey. He’s old-school like Italian mentality. He was like, “This guy is taking advantage of this girl because he has money.” I was like, “Why are you angry? It’s a movie. Are you okay?” He would act irrationally and he was weird about sex. Sometimes he’d be like, “Can we cuddle?” I’m like, “Yes. Are you all right?” It wasn’t anything to do with me.

Was he abused?

I don’t know. He would never tell me if he was. I have no idea.

He was closed off.

The thing is he’s a mommy’s boy in the sense that he doesn’t love his mommy like that but he talks to her every day. She goes over to his house, cleans his house and does his laundry.

That wasn’t going to last. That wasn’t going to work with you.

With me, it was like, “Can you order this for me off Amazon? Can you order Uber Eats for me? Can you order my groceries to be delivered?”

You’d have been more successful, which is negative, by being his mother.

The bar was so low that if you would let me know what we were doing by noon, I was like, “He loves me.” That is not even a thing. He’s back with his ex that terrorized our relationship, his baby momma. It was his fault too because he would lie to her and be like, “I’m not with anyone. What are you talking about? You’re crazy. Who’s Stephanie? I don’t know who that is.” He would gaslight the crap out of her. She was already crazy and went even crazier because she knew that he was lying.

I had to get a cease and desist against her and for my company. She still didn’t cease and desist. Four months later, she’s texting me and messaging me. She’s made up 50 different Instagram accounts asking me if I’m talking to him. I don’t respond but I’m like, “I’d rather eat broken glass than talk to that guy.” If I’m going to be in their life forever, poor them. That ghost of all this lying and craziness is always going to be there for them.

What messed her up is when she saw you. There isn’t any problem. She was done because what happens is he can say whatever he wants to her, “I don’t like her.” She looks at you and she sees you and you look better than her, taller than her. She can’t handle that. She’s going to do whatever she can to keep him away from you. She’ll be around until you find a man and go away.

He was like, “I would never want her. I don’t want her back. I know where I’m going to bury her body.” He’s being hyperbolic. He’s not legitimately going to kill her, but he’s telling me how much he hates her. His family hates her. The mom hates her. They have this whole drama where when she was moving out of the house when they’d broken up originally, she took footage of his mom going crazy because he was out of town.

She was trying to get her not to take all his stuff. It’s like the Grinch Who Stole Christmas. She left hooks on the wall. She was screaming frantically. This girl posted the mom going frantic on Facebook for all the Italian community to see. Everybody hated her but now he’s going back to her because she’s a pick-me girl. She’s a, “Pick me. I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll order your groceries. I’ll clean your house. I’ll wipe your ass.”

She is his mother. I talked about that in a book that I wrote before. I wrote a relationship book about men that look for their mother in the women that they’re dating. It can go 1 of 2 ways. They can look for a woman that acts as their mother and gives them everything, does everything, listens to him, makes sure that they’re right and doesn’t tell them that they’re wrong. They can find a woman that is nurturing, solid, strong, caring and they get used to that. They look for that in a woman. They look for those traits.

It can go either way. It can be where he wants a good woman or one that kisses his ass as his mother did. They do that. In my case, I lost my mother. I was always looking for a nurturing type of woman that could be there for me, listen to me, wouldn’t put me down, believed in me and gave me restoring confidence. That’s what I look for. I’m an independent guy. I’ve been independent since I was eleven. I don’t need you to do anything for me but if you want to, I’m fine with that. I don’t need you to wash my clothes. I can do that and I can fold. I clean up the house and do all those things. We look for that type of woman by emulating our mother, but it could be good and bad.

Talking about childhood, I know that you were born an empath. You have empathy. I had a great childhood. I thank God for that. I’m happy that I had the childhood I had. I was sheltered. Something that you said resonated with me when we were texting. You said, “Settling creates anger.” In those relationships, I didn’t get what my parents were embodying or taught me about. Can you talk a little bit about that?

You got it but the person that you’re with didn’t have that. You attract and select certain men. I’ve had all good women. I was always a bad person. My ex-wife had character, integrity and morals. She expected me to have that because she was taught that. When you meet a person like you who has character and integrity, morals and your parents are still together and they taught you all this stuff, you expect the world to be like that.

You get out there and it’s like, “You did what? How could you do that?” It’s foreign to you but people like me have been in the weeds, out here in the streets and dysfunctional as hell, that’s all I know. I look at you like you were square. You’ve been sheltered, “You don’t know anything, Stephanie. What’s wrong with you? You don’t have any street cred,” all that type of stuff. Those women are great women and they always meet the opposite.

They say, “Opposites attract.” They do but the opposite subtracts. A person that you’re meeting is going to drain the hell out of you. It’s going to take from you. You wind up being somebody that’s manipulative, vindictive, covert and all these traits, and then we make a fool out of you. You can settle with this guy because the sex is great and now you’re angry because he’s a piece of crap. You’re coming from this great family with these morals like my ex-wife and then she met me. I turned her life upside down. That’s what I say when you settle, you become angry and now you’re into it.

Women love quality time, and they love time and relationships. You guys don’t want to break it off so soon. It’s like, “We’re building on something.” Men are like, “We’re not building anything. I’m good. I’m out.” When you come from a family with morals, character, integrity and your parents working on their 35th or 40th-year anniversary, and you meet a guy like me whose parents got divorced years ago. My inner moral compass or my outer moral compass is all out of whack, spinning out of control, dysfunctional and disoriented, and then you meet me.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A lot of women don’t get the real things that matter in a relationship because some men want to impress them with their money, their car, and their house.

If you meet a guy that’s like you, it’s going to be boring. It sounds weird but when you meet a guy who’s got character, integrity, is a Christian, a family man, his mother and father probably are married for 40 years, you go to church, they’ve got the nice house, car and everything is solid. I’ve met women to tell me, “I want someone living on the edge, somebody to take me out and go have fun. Let’s go drink, run the streets and get chased by the police.” Some women want a little bit of that.

Do you remember what happened to Bonnie and Clyde?

They got destroyed. Before they got caught, they were good. Some women want that edgy type of guy, rough around the edges, that bad boy type. Look at Whitney Houston. She had Bobby Brown, had a kid with Bob. She’s dead. Her daughter is dead. Her daughter’s boyfriend and her husband are dead. She was raised in the church and she sang in church. All of sudden, she meets him. Maybe she was doing drugs before him but when she met Bobby Brown it got worse.

Women with morals, integrity and character are great women to have, but then you meet that person, you get out here and you’re like, “My mom and dad didn’t tell me this.” It’s not that they didn’t tell you but they were raised like this and this is what they saw. This is what we believe. It’s all this other stuff. You’re not going to encounter that. Then you do and you’re like, “Crap.” The bar is so low now.

I would rather be alone the whole rest of my life than deal with it again. I’m tired. I’m exhausted. I’ve been dating for many years. I feel like it’s been a lifetime. I’m like, “I don’t want to do this anymore.”

A lot of women feel that way and it’s getting worse. It’s not getting better. It’s more women than men. I know a lot of women who are professionals. It’s like, “Leon, what do I do? I’ve got a job. I’m a professional. I’ve got my own house, my own car and my credit score is 800.”

You literally described me.

You’re single. It’s baffling to me. I can’t imagine what you all are going through. You said, “I’ve done everything. I even lowered my standards.”

It’s funny because when men ask me, “Why are you single? What’s wrong with you?” That’s what they say. I’m like, “Nothing is wrong with me at all. I’m perfect.”

I see a lot of men that when they go into a relationship wanting longevity, and if they have staying power, they can have a good woman. These guys, from their 20s up to 45 years old, are still playing around. I was in a relationship but I wasn’t serious about it. I didn’t settle down. I always have great women in my life. I see women now and I’m like, “Why don’t you go talk to her?” They’re like, “No.” It’s horrible out here. The men that are single are not single really. They might not be in a relationship with one person but they’re probably in a relationship with 3 or 4 women. You won’t find out until it’s too late and you get heartbroken. Women are coming at you to pee in your car and all that stuff.

I’ll tell you a quick anecdote. I dated a Texans player a few years ago. He was married but separated. It was all over the news that he was separated, so I knew it was a legit separation. He and I were pretty close. We would go on trips and spend time together. We would hang out after his games all the time. He would get me tickets to sideline passes and all that stuff. Even over Christmas, we spent Christmas together. It wasn’t me making up a scenario in my head. We were dating.

I remember, all of a sudden, my ex-friend who worked for the Texans at the time, was like, “You can’t go on the sidelines anymore.” I’m like, “Why?” I couldn’t reach the guy. I won’t say his name and I don’t want to out him. I was like, “He’s probably busy.” It was during the Playoffs. This was when the Texans were doing something with themselves.

I was like, “It’s during the Playoffs so he’s busy. It’s fine.” She was like, “You can’t come on the sidelines because so and so’s wife says you can’t come anymore.” They’re trying to sue us. I’m like, “They’re separated.” Apparently, they had gotten back together and he forgot to tell me. When she found all our messages or whatever, he probably was, “She’s crazy. She’s obsessed with me. It’s nothing.” I don’t know what happened. I’m guessing.

They tried to get me kicked out of Texans games. This girl that was my friend was like, “Do you know how much Stephanie spends with us every year?” I was in clubs, season tickets, whatever. She was like, “She doesn’t come to the games for free. She pays for seats. He gives her sideline passes but she pays this much money every season. She has her PSLs.”

They were trying to kick you out of the whole stadium.

They had tried, so I couldn’t go to the sidelines anymore but they were also trying to kick me out of the games. This woman was threatening to sue them. I don’t know on what grounds. She was threatening to sue them because it was my fault or whatever. A couple of years later, he got traded to the Seahawks and he was messaging me again on Snapchat, the covert app. You know how it is.

He’s like, “I wanted to tell you that I’m so sorry how I treated you. It was super unfair. I should have been honest with you. I cared for you.” He didn’t love-bomb me ever so that was good but he was like, “I treated you like crap and I’m sorry.” I was like, “I appreciate that. How is your wife?” He’s like, “She’s in Los Angeles,” meaning they broke up. They don’t live together. He’s like, “Can I fly you out here?” I was like, “I don’t know. I’m not sure.”

He sends me $1,000 and he’s like, “Book yourself a first-class ticket. I’ll bring you to the game. We’ll have fun.” I was like, “I’ll think about it.” I booked a ticket. It gets to me two days before I’m supposed to leave and I’m not hearing from him. I had blocked his wife on Instagram since back then because I didn’t want her or her friends stalking me because they were coming on my page talking crap to me. I unblocked her and she’s way pregnant with his kid, and they are still together.

When men are doing that, they’re still trying to cheat. When a man is in that mindset, they have no fear.

Bold as hell.

Bodacious and bold. No fear. I was thinking about what I was doing and I was like, “How did I even have the heart to do that?” She is pregnant.

I was like, “I guess I’m not coming up?” He’s like, “Yeah, some stuff happened.” I was like, “I’m sure a lot of things happened.” Now they’re actually divorced, and I’ve seen it. I’m like, “They are divorced because he’s a cheater. He’s horrible.” I don’t know anything about her. She could have her own problems. She went through it, for sure. She has to be attached to him forever because they have a kid.

I think about all the things that I’ve done like that. I don’t know how I had the nerve, heart or mindset. It goes to show where I was. When men are doing that, there’s some sickness too because he blocked everything out, “What if I get caught? What if she finds out? I’ll make up a lie and she’ll be fine. She can stay. She’s not probably going anywhere.” He wanted you. She’s not going anywhere. In his mind, he’s like, “We’re going to get divorced three years from now. I’ll pay her. I want Stephanie.” That’s how they do it.

Pro athletes are off my list. We don’t play that game anymore. My mom says to me, “The more you have in common, the better it is.” I’m like, “I thought opposites attract.”

Opposites subtract.

I need to be with someone as learned as me that has done as much self-reflection and work as I have.

That’s why we talked earlier about how he needs to know what you like and what you’re doing. It’s a support thing. When you’re doing a podcast, “How can I help you with your podcast? How can we get your viewers to go from here to here? How can I help?” You say, “Maybe he wants to open a carwash or whatever. Let’s think of a name. Let’s get an LLC. Let’s get a sign. Let’s go look for land. Let’s go look for a lot.”

Your mother is right. I was with a woman for a long time and we had nothing in common. When you don’t have anything in common with anybody, you’re not compatible. There’s no chemistry. Being physical with each other sucks. You’re unhappy. You don’t listen. You take turns talking and don’t communicate. The more you have in common and the more you talk, you talk about seasons and reasons, love languages and relationship vows, you’ll be fine.

Loveship: Friendship, Courtship, Companionship, and Leadership for a healthy relation

Speaking of that, Leon, how can we support you? How can my readers support you?

I would like people to ask me questions. When I post a video, it starts off slow and sometimes it just goes. I asked to be here. God put me on this journey. I go in because women have questions that they want to know answers to. It takes me days to get through all of them. Sometimes, I won’t get through all of them. Support-wise, as far as asking questions, I don’t mind commenting. I’m cool with that but always ask questions because I like to help people. I try to get to all of the questions that I can. It may take me days and I may not get to all of them because then I post another video and that may post other questions. I enjoy it. Thank you, Steph, for having me. I enjoyed being here. You have a great show. It’s good.

In 2019, I did 37 interviews, radio, TV and podcasts. I was driving from Chicago to Cleveland because I’m from Cleveland. I had a PR, “You’ve got an interview in Cleveland on Wednesday 9:00. Can you get there?” I’m like, “Yes. This is about my first book.” I’m telling this because these older people have had these podcasts for years. You remind me of those good ones that were doing well. You engage with the questions. You need to stay right where you are with the show and look for some good people to interview because you’re doing a good job.

Thank you so much. I’ve been trying to get Ginger on my show. She’s the Loving Me After We. She reposted your video on her grid. That’s how I found you.

Is that on Instagram?

Yeah. I’ve been trying to get in touch with her to get her on my show. Maybe she’s looking for monetary opportunities and that’s why she’s not responding. I would love to speak to her because a lot of what she posts resonates with me. The fact that I found you through her means a lot to me because I’m happy to know you. I would love to continue our friendship.

You can always reach out to me if you have any questions. I would ask you to do this. If you meet a guy say, “Leon.” I do that for my female friends now and they’d be like, “No.” I make them think. I’m like, “He’s taking you to dinner?” She’ll go, “Yes.” I’m like, “Where is he taking you?” “We’re going to go to Hooters.” I said, “You better not. If he’s taking you to Larry’s, Gordon’s or Mike Ditka’s, better. He’ll get you a $100 tomahawk steak and he pays.”

It doesn’t have to be fancy but not Hooters.

Thoughtful but not Hooters. Hooters is for him, not for her.

Put some thought into it.

I said, “You let him take you to Hooters?” This is a friend of mine who’s retired in the Navy and she’s an entrepreneur. I said, “Let me talk to him.” Whenever you have any questions, Stephanie, because you know I’ll give you the truth, reach out and say, “What do you think?” I got you.

Thank you. I do have one more question for you. It’s something I asked every guest on my show. If you were walking down the street and you saw twenty-year-old Leon walking towards you, you gave him a big hug. After you left his embrace, what is one thing that you would tell twenty-year-old Leon?

At twenty, I had been in the Navy for two years. I would tell him to stop being promiscuous.

That’s a good one.

I was stationed in San Diego with palm trees and women. It took twenty minutes from Mexico, Tijuana, deploying to Australia, Singapore and Thailand. At twenty years old, I have been exposed to a lot of women and a lot of places. I would tell him to stop being so promiscuous. Meet a good woman and keep her.

That’s good advice.

When a man goes to the military, we get exposed to the world. They rolled out the red carpet to a nineteen-year-old little boy and he got to pay for nothing, women and liquor.

I feel like God put you on this path to get to where you are now.

I went through all that stuff. I got here and I got to continue to perform. That’s why I know women are like, “You’re triggering me.” I have women come up to me and I’m like, “I’m sorry.” The next thing you know, they’re like, “Okay, Leon.” When they come at me and I’ll be like, “Go ahead. Get it out. I get it.” I don’t meet them with fire or attitude because I know I’m a trigger. I remind you of your ex because your ex has a bald head, your ex had a beard or a big nose. I look like your ex. I get it. Go ahead and let me have it.

You do look mine, for real.

It’s been two other women who said that and I’m like, “I’m sorry. Let me apologize to him.”

You don’t trigger me at all. You empower me.

Thank you. I’m glad I can do that. Anytime you have any questions, reach out. I like helping women. I like helping men too because they have some issues with women that they don’t know what to do or how to handle. I talk to people every night. I got phone calls coming in at night. When that video went out, I wasn’t ready for anything viral like that.

That’s TikTok for you. There’s nothing like it.

Reach out. Let me know. You’re doing a great job. You made it fun and engaging. You ask some thought-provoking questions but you have a good show because I can see you going up and up.

Thank you. That means so much to me. I’m excited. I’ll talk to you soon.

Thank you. Bye.

—

That’s it with this episode with Leon. I hope that you enjoyed that. To be honest, I feel like a different or changed person after that conversation. We probably could have talked for another hour. We spoke for two hours. It could have been more. Leon and I will continue to be friends. He even told me he was going to vet the guys that I want to date. I’d be happy to send over the resumes as they come rolling in.

What a great guy. To be able to talk so openly about his past, his discretions, his dark times, and be able to listen to me and to what happened to me as well is truly something special. I hope you bonded with him just like I did when you read this. I hope you’re going to take away something with you, a lesson learned, something that will appeal to you in the future and you will say, “I remember reading on The Luxury Dropout. Leon was talking with Stephanie, and this came up.” Also to be able to use it in your everyday conversation.

It’s an important topic to keep in the frame of your mind. If you’re watching on YouTube, please like, comment and subscribe. Let us know your thoughts. Have you been with a narcissist? Have you yourself been the narcissist and are also recovering? Are you in treatment or therapy? What are your takeaways? If you are listening on any streaming platforms, pls leave me five stars. I’d love the feedback from you. I’m glad that you’re here. That’s it for me. I love you, guys. Until next time.

About Leon Walker